Creating Waves of Awareness
Homeopathy and the Growth of Being - Can there be a relationship?
Thanks, Jonathan,
I would like to engage further in the dialogue, in the spirit of mutual
inquiry.
I personally resonate with what you say about information explosion and
attention deficit disorder. 15 years ago, my inner discontentment
brought me to taste and test homeopathy. It was an inner drive for a
meaningful process that is more than just arbitrary intellectual
interventions of western medicine. Homeopathy tasted just right for a
thirsty soul and tested as a far superior approach of health care.
But there was so many contemporary teachers on the scene, and so much
information and clamouring that I needed a break to maintain personal
sanity. My felt sense was that all the information is not equal.
I was struck by the demand to be unprejudiced that Hahnemann puts before
any worthy homeopath. I realized that unless one brings sanity and
unity to one's own confused and fragmented life one can not be honest in
his healing venture. I think, that since then, I have been an
ardent student of this self dynamics.
I understand that if I am not free of judgment and prejudices in other more
private areas of life, it is not possible to be unprejudiced while taking
a case.
Hahnemann cautions the homeopathic practitioner to be unprejudiced and
of sound senses to truthfully portray the deviation in vital force ie
totality of disease. If I am not free of my opinions, theories and
experiences, then, all i will do is to impose my systems, theories
and designs on what is given to us.
I sense your humility in stating that you can make these demands on
yourself and on someone who volunteers for the process but not on anyone
else. I bow down before your wisdom to leave it to personal
discrimination of everyone to choose what feels right. You experience
freedom once you make your stance public.
But, I am really wondering why people do what they do, as you are saying
that they will do what they do according to their understanding and
ability.
Do they exhaust their ability by doing what they do? Or, their ability
(potential) remains untapped when they don't question their own ways and
beliefs?
@Manoj
"But, I am really wondering why people do what they do, as you are
saying that they will do what they do according to their understanding
and ability.
Do they exhaust their ability by doing what they do? Or, their ability
(potential) remains untapped when they don't question their own ways and
beliefs?"
These are really difficult questions and I suspect whole volumes have
been written around this.
The short answer ( from my point of view ) is that our behaviour is
conditioned, that is not free at all. That our choices are not choices
in the same way as a tree does not choose what kind of branches to grow.
The possibility of freedom begins to exist when one becomes aware of
these facts, begins to experience them. Then some small area, some germ
of freedom is born.
Now why some find themselves in this possibility and others never even
dream of it, believing all the while in their dream of freedom, is for
me one of the great mysteries of life.
Although a great mystery it can be summed up in a common saying which
contains a deep truth " You can lead a horse to water but you cannot
make it drink "
Maybe not a too satisfactory answer but as close to my experience as I
can come in a few sentences
Thanks, Jonathan,
You are right that if such questioning is not your authentic concern..
it is meaningless, just a rhetoric... like written volumes.
Yet, when I share my authentic concern publicly, without reciprocal
expectations - I think I am doing my bit. Might be whom I think to be a
horse is not actually a horse and starts liking drinking water.
I would like to engage further in the dialogue, in the spirit of mutual
inquiry.
I personally resonate with what you say about information explosion and
attention deficit disorder. 15 years ago, my inner discontentment
brought me to taste and test homeopathy. It was an inner drive for a
meaningful process that is more than just arbitrary intellectual
interventions of western medicine. Homeopathy tasted just right for a
thirsty soul and tested as a far superior approach of health care.
But there was so many contemporary teachers on the scene, and so much
information and clamouring that I needed a break to maintain personal
sanity. My felt sense was that all the information is not equal.
I was struck by the demand to be unprejudiced that Hahnemann puts before
any worthy homeopath. I realized that unless one brings sanity and
unity to one's own confused and fragmented life one can not be honest in
his healing venture. I think, that since then, I have been an
ardent student of this self dynamics.
I understand that if I am not free of judgment and prejudices in other more
private areas of life, it is not possible to be unprejudiced while taking
a case.
Hahnemann cautions the homeopathic practitioner to be unprejudiced and
of sound senses to truthfully portray the deviation in vital force ie
totality of disease. If I am not free of my opinions, theories and
experiences, then, all i will do is to impose my systems, theories
and designs on what is given to us.
I sense your humility in stating that you can make these demands on
yourself and on someone who volunteers for the process but not on anyone
else. I bow down before your wisdom to leave it to personal
discrimination of everyone to choose what feels right. You experience
freedom once you make your stance public.
But, I am really wondering why people do what they do, as you are saying
that they will do what they do according to their understanding and
ability.
Do they exhaust their ability by doing what they do? Or, their ability
(potential) remains untapped when they don't question their own ways and
beliefs?
@Manoj
"But, I am really wondering why people do what they do, as you are
saying that they will do what they do according to their understanding
and ability.
Do they exhaust their ability by doing what they do? Or, their ability
(potential) remains untapped when they don't question their own ways and
beliefs?"
These are really difficult questions and I suspect whole volumes have
been written around this.
The short answer ( from my point of view ) is that our behaviour is
conditioned, that is not free at all. That our choices are not choices
in the same way as a tree does not choose what kind of branches to grow.
The possibility of freedom begins to exist when one becomes aware of
these facts, begins to experience them. Then some small area, some germ
of freedom is born.
Now why some find themselves in this possibility and others never even
dream of it, believing all the while in their dream of freedom, is for
me one of the great mysteries of life.
Although a great mystery it can be summed up in a common saying which
contains a deep truth " You can lead a horse to water but you cannot
make it drink "
Maybe not a too satisfactory answer but as close to my experience as I
can come in a few sentences
Thanks, Jonathan,
You are right that if such questioning is not your authentic concern..
it is meaningless, just a rhetoric... like written volumes.
Yet, when I share my authentic concern publicly, without reciprocal
expectations - I think I am doing my bit. Might be whom I think to be a
horse is not actually a horse and starts liking drinking water.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Manoj SachDeva on -
Homeopathy and Growth of Being - Can There Be A Relationship?
Well, I will say that there is a very definite relationship - for all the stake holders.
Both practitioner and the client evolve in the process.
For a conscientious practitioner, the gift is tremendous. The gift of self awareness.
One comes face to face with the conditioning - assumptions, beliefs, compulsive obsessions and patterns of thoughts and actions. All that keeps one stuck with the fiction of I. Freedom from this fiction is the liberation without frontiers.
The demand of being totally available with all your senses and awareness. To choice-lessly attend to what is. This is the taste of here and now. It is not the growth in the usual dictionary sense of the word. Because in this growth - complexity leaves and what remains is simplicity. This may not go with the public meaning of the word growth. But, yes, this simplicity lets you live and enjoy life more fully. Body and mind.
Homeopathic processing (case taking) is an unusual opportunity for the client as well. S/he may experience insights into herself that can be the beginning of a change. We have been talking of such possibility in the placebo thread. The Similimum takes it further for her. A submissive client is seen to become assertive and an aggressive one mellower. Ice is broken for a life long journey of wholesome transformation - Body and Mind.
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Permalink Reply by Debby Bruck on -
Jonathan and Manoj ~ ♥ Thank you for continuing this discussion in such an open manner for everyone to listen and learn.
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Shore MD on -
@Manoj and Debby
I thought we could move to this space so we do not clutter certain threads with material which some may consider quite irrelevant to the practice of homeopathy or medicine.
I suppose the first question then is: are these ideas which have been raised under this thread actually necessary for the practice of homeopathy?
I am quite sure that many ( if not most) would say that they obtain excellent results just by taking symptoms in a perfectly straightforward manner and choosing remedies based on these symptoms.
My guess is that if any of these “ straight forward prescribers “ were to participate in this discussion some relationship between their life experience and the final choice of remedy would emerge which may not be that simple and straightforward.
Despite this contribution of life experience which may well apply to any field of endevour and occur quite automatically over time, I would like to take the position that self awareness is not an essential precondition for a carefully considered homeopathic prescription.
If this self awareness is not an essential precondition for homeopathic practice ( and if we can agree that self awareness IS an essential precondition for evolution )
then I believe it is fair to say that the practice of homeopathy is in no way obligated to offer any contribution to the evolution of consciousness.
At this stage of the discussion the question then becomes:
OK, if homeopathy in and of itself does not automatically lead to this evolution, the nature of which I have classified as “ Growth of Being” ,
then what needs to be added to homeopathy “ from the outside” so to speak which might allow for this relationship between the two?
Please take the rest of this as ' footnote rambling ' which is not meant to disctract from the question I have placed above in boldface
Of course there is much further to go with this topic and what I have written is simply by way of taking one step towards continuing a dialog with those who might have similar questions.
Even in these few paragraphs there are many words ( concepts ) around which we assume mutual agreements and understanding, yet around which these assumptions are actually a stumbling block to further mutual understanding.
Words like Homeopathy, self-awareness, evolution, consciousness, Being. Not that we need to bring out the dictionaries, but rather that any serious discussion will involve clarification of these issues.
As for example in the idea of growth as being a decrease of something as opposed to an increase.
Both you and I understand something of this, yet now the question has come up for me - is this return to simplicity actually growth, or simply a pre-condition for growth in the way that the existence of food is not nourishment itself, but an essential pre-condition.
Anyway, as we know, there is often an inverse relationship between quantity and quality and now I have produced more than enough quantity
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Permalink Reply by Manoj SachDeva on
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Jonathan,
You are saying that experiential evidences of so many homeopaths are proof that self awareness is not the essential precondition for practice of homeopathy. Yet, self awareness seems to be the doorway of growth or evolution. You are asking - what need to happen in the practice of homeopathy to establish this critical bridge?
I agree with you that self-awareness is not essential precondition for homeopathic practice. But, before linking self awareness exclusively with practitioner's growth and exploring this connection, I would like to see how presence or absence of self awareness affects one’s perceptions. And, how this is related with un/prejudiced observation?
Also, whether unprejudiced observation is a redundant expression in the organon? If so, then why not consciously absolve ourselves from this impractical obligation? Or, if it is a critical need for Hahnemannean Homeopathy – then, why not find ways to help homeopathic practitioner to develop this discipline/skill/art?
Or, is there an unsaid assumption that nothing can be done about it? It is either there or not there, but, nothing can be done about it to facilitate its growth!!! If this assumption is the block, it needs to be addressed by homeopathic community.
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Shore MD on
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@Manoj or anyone else who might be interested
I will start with the big picture and then move to the details
There are 2 large categories which need to be related:
1] Our individual ideas/experiences around the concept of self awareness
2] The ideas/experiences of the homeopathic community at large to this 'self awareness'
Concerning #2
- the time to address this is not right now, but soon. As it stands, even though our conversation is public we have no idea of whether anyone is listening in, following, or even remotely interested.
I am not sure about an unsaid assumption that nothing can be done about it. The question for me is " Does anyone care about it "
At some point we need to formulate a poll by which the general interest in this topic and its perceived relevance to homeopathy may be evaluated.
At the moment my sense is that we ourselves need to be clear on the terminology that we are using so as to be able to provide a coherent focus.
So I will take up the details of the first point
Concerning #1
Both of us agree that there is a relationship between the possibility of self awareness and the possibility of unprejudiced observation.
For the moment I will leave as an open question whether the nature of the ' unprejudiced observation ' spoken of by Hahnemann in the homeopathic context can be extrapolated to a more general principle of impartiality with regard to the world at large or vice versa.
What I would like us to be clear on is what we actually mean by self awareness.
In my experience the binary concept ( either off or on ) does not apply here. What I wish to discriminate is all the shades of gray between black and white.
Thus we can consider a scale between complete and total experiential self awareness ( God or the fundamental intelligence and awareness in the universe ) and nothing - no awareness at all.
We can reasonably begin at the lower end - we can call it ' next to nothing' which is an awareness ' from the outside' say my mind looking at something like my hand and saying to itself " I have a hand, or I am aware of my hand" or " I am having thoughts of dislike towards X "
This initial step can be mixed with but is in no way limited to
' self-consciousness ' in the neurotic or narcissistic sense.
Now actually even this degree of separation in which the mind is aware of its contents and sees itself as a container, as separate from this content is really rare in everyday life.
Not that it does not occur. In fact it can occur anytime it is mentioned. However within a few seconds this separation is lost and the thought is completely caught up in itself having lost all awareness of anything else resulting in a very small and circumscribed world ( even if the thought is about some great altruistic project )
So this is my first step towards a common understanding.
What is your experience and how would you formulate an idea of self awareness based on this?
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Permalink Reply by Manoj SachDeva on
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Yes, I understand that we need to be clear on the terminology. Let us drop what is extraneous and what we can do without.
And, for this very reason, I would like to confine my perspective of self awareness in the clinical context..
When I am unaware, I tend to fix patients in some singular perspective – eg. Fat, fair and flabby. And, because I am unaware – I cannot get free of this. Rather, my interrogation goes in the direction of confirming my first impression of the patient. My questions become more and more leading in the expected direction – eg. Do you like eggs? Do you perspire on the head? Do you like to watch horror in the movies?
And, the moment, my patient yields to oblige me by a courteous reply, I lock the case. A similimum has been found. Inquiry stops. As if something is afraid in me to attend to what may come further.
And, even if, something comes up that is contradictory – my diagnostic momentum tends to overlook that.
Or, when my favorite theory or approach is at the front of my brain that is my favorite filter. Then, I tend to see almost every patient through the same filter. If I am in miasmatic frame of mind, I tend to think of just nosodes. If I take fancy for pathological general – I presume there is nothing deeper in the case. If I am prescribing only on common mind expressions, I don’t even bother to know the physical generals and peculiar particular symptoms. So, my bias makes me see not what the patient has but more of what I want to see.
And, interesting thing is that I am not even aware that during all this proceedings my prejudice was working as a road map for my patient. The observer was impinging on the subjective reality of the patient!
At times, some new patient resembles with someone from my past – and without knowing it, I treat him as if he is someone I already know. So, nothing new to know about. I freely intuit about him. If I am unaware, then all this is unconscious. I know that these examples are all too simplistic and yet I feel that I am conveying that I see only what I (usually unconsciously) want to see.
Then there is a possibility that I am aware of my prejudices, yet I find myself in a habitual flow, unable to stop.
And, when there is self awareness of something coming in between me and the patient, this awareness sees the compulsion in my initial impression. Then it puts aside my theory of – say - fat, fair and flabby, and creates space in my consciousness to attend to the ongoing unfolding of the patient. Fat, fair and flabby will be available to me when there is time to analyze the data. But, keeping my things – impression, judgment, experience, memory, theory, bias – aside creates the needed space for unprejudiced observation. It is made possible by the awareness of my prejudices.
So, to catch the gist of it, I will say that in practice, my self awareness is the insight into how my emotional chemistry, beliefs, cognitive preferences etc. 1) impinge upon spontaneous and free unfolding of patient’s story. And 2) filter my perception of the patient’s reality.
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Permalink Reply by Elena Zagrebelnaya on -
To Jonathan Shore and Manoj SachDeva,
I cannot write much and have not really thought much about this in terms of discussing it with anyone, but I thought that you might like to have some comments from onlookers of your dialogue.
I see that you are not sure if anyone is listening to your dialogue, well, you have at least one listener here - and I beleive that it is of utmost importance that homeopaths discuss this topic - self- awareness and ways to work on this and expand it, in themselves and in their patients! Well, in the School where I study homeopathy now this is a very important aspect that tutors constantly bring to attention of students, at least in case of my tutor. And now that I have started case supervision program we always discuss with my tutor how as the case unfolds and patients receive their remedies, their self-awareness invariably increases, and this permits me to find them the next remedy - if they need a change of remedy, that is.
I have heard about a homeopath once who was prescribing Stramonium to almost every patient, and guess what - he ended in a mental hospital himself. A very unfortunate story, of course, but the meaning of this is that this person were projecting his own problem on his patients - and obviously no one could benefit from this, including the person himself...
So, please, be assured that there people out there interested in this topic and in what you are saying!
Best regards,
Elena Zagrebelnaya
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Shore MD on
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Greetings Elena,
So nice to hear from you.
Would you mind saying which school that is and who is your tutor?
I was in Japan some 2 years ago working with the school of Natsu Watanabe
Stay in touch
Jonathan
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Permalink Reply by Elena Zagrebelnaya on
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Dear Jonathan,
I do not study in Japan, I take a correspondence course with what used to be Devon School, the one led by Misha Norland. I am not sure that anyone in Japan has approached this level as yet, but I do not really know about that, so I do not want to make any statements - at least until I find out about the situation. I have met Natsu Watanabe personally for a brief moment, but I have no idea about what's happening at her school.
I have also sent several patients to her for treatment, one of them is really doing well, the other is happy with the process, and the rest have "dropped out" finding her style of case taking a bit stressful for themselves. This certainly resonates with what Debby has mentioned in her post below. It's not only a remedy for each person, it's also for each their personal homeopath - the individualisation, I guess.
As for tutor - well, it's one of the Schools approved tutors, I'm not sure she'd like to have her name mentioned without her permission, so I hope you will excuse me for not mentioning it, but she is only working within the School guidelines, so I think one might assume that all the tutors are following this approach more or less...
I hope that will answer your questions in part,
and I am LISTENING!
Thank you for your attention!
Elena
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Permalink Reply by Debby Bruck on
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Hello Jonathan and Manoj ~ Popping in to say, "I'm listening" and haven't had the time to contribute lately. In another one of my blogs, I've written on the topic of "bias" in the way humans perceive and interpret our lives and the information we receive and interpret.
I do not think there is any way "not to be biased" or lean one way or another in our minds, communications and interpretations of all our senses and incoming information. Each individual is encoded and must have a base of experience, education, historical and biological reference. Nothing stands alone. Just as the observer changes the outcome in physics, so too, we are a player in the field.
Maybe this explains why within each group consultation each homeopath comes up with a different remedy selection. Or, why within a client-patient relationship the resonance of those two beings together results in a particular remedy selection.
Does anyone follow this concept?
We can certainly devise guidelines and constructs to follow so that, as a group, more homeopaths can come to the same remedy selection for a 'set of symptoms' when they are perceived.
Maybe we can explain why one ailing person is drawn to connect with a particular homeopath who practices with a certain set of guidelines and field of vision? There are always more questions than answers.
As energy beings, we have an opportunity to grow and learn from each other. It's a matter of awareness, living in the present, and becoming conscious of our potential.
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Permalink Reply by Manoj SachDeva on
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Hello,
I am musing about my self awareness in the dialogue!
Thanks, Elena and Debby, for speaking up your presence and interest in the topic. It seems to be opening up for some meaningful brain storming.
So, we realize that unaware we have no way “not to be biased” or lean one way or another in our mind, communications and interpretations of all our senses and incoming information. We are highly encoded with genetics and social conditioning. And, this colors all our observations and relations. Our prejudices determine what we see and hear. Though, the data is same, but we make different meaning of it. Is it not what Debby is saying about having different prescriptions by different practitioners in one group consultation?
I think the important question is to find out:
Is it possible to suspend our base of prejudice and stand alone when we are taking a case?
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Shore MD on
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If one takes into account all that Debby has written above, then it is easy to understand my stance that criticism of the methodology of others is a waste of valuable energy which can be much better deployed in the perfecting of ones' own technique. This perfecting can not really take place in isolation and thus the critique of those on the same path is invaluable. ( understanding here that there are a quite limited, rather than an infinite, number of paths.
I am in accord with everything that Manoj has expressed.
The short form of expression is as follows:
There are two places in taking the case when there is great danger
The first is when I disagree ( don't like) with what the patient is saying
The second is when I agree ( sympathize with ) what the patient is saying.
Of course both of these events take place in any encounter. A problem arises only when they are not perceived as danger signals, as areas where the case can fall off a steep cliff.
What I really wish to raise is the distinction between theory and practice.
All that has been said is the theory, not theory in a pejorative sense, rather theory in the sense that it is the final conclusion of experienced events, the end result of certain experiences.
Theory is helpful as it opens the mind to the potential benefits. However in the absence of practice ( an actual practical method ) it just remains in the mind as a nice idea.
So what I am asking is : What is the actual practice of this self-awareness?
Maybe a concrete example is needed. You are sitting in a chair. You have never been in this position before. You have never had, in your whole life, to stand up. Now I say to you: there is great value in standing up. Fine. But you do not have a clue HOW to do this.
You need to learn. What is the instruction?
It can go something like this: place your feet just underneath the chair, lean your upper body forward as far as is comfortable, let your head fall forward. Now you will feel that your feet are supporting the weight of your body. Straighten your legs etc
Forgive this rather simplistic example.
My thought here is that not only do we need to indicate ( to those who are interested ) what to do, but we especially need to indicate how.
At least here we can have some discussion of practices , of the HOW on the path of self awareness in the field of the homeopathic interview.
© 2013 Created by Debby Bruck.
